Hi Brian,

You're quite right, of course. Many people visiting the Amazonian lodges just list all the birds recorded during their stay under the name of the lodge, no matter how far away they went during the day, and even some seen on the journey to and from.

In any case, the number of species recorded from a site on eBird should never be taken at face value, as the data are not really vetted. There are always a number of misidentifications and there are even some trolls inserting data at random. I came across such a case when preparing for a trip to Ghana. I observed that many rainforest birds were recorded from Mole National Park and not from any other locality north of the forest belt. And upon closer scrutiny it turned out that all these records came from one source, viz. an 'Anonymous birder'. I can understand that a few misidentifications may occur, but there were so many anomalous records there that foul play was certainly at play. I would advise eBird never to accept records from 'anonymous' birders.

That having been said, it remains a fact that Amazonia is enormously rich in birds. If a 9 by 9 km area contains the various habitats of the Amazonian lowlands, such as a large river (such as the Rio Napo in Ecuador) with its associated river islands, oxbow lakes, várzea and upland forest, and a few clearings, the number of birds present can certainly reach far into the 500's. And as these are purely lowland areas, far from any mountains, I don't think that any other such area can come close.

Best regards,

Paul Van Gasse
Kruibeke, Belgium
paul.van.gasse@telenet.be

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Brian Finch [mailto:birdfinch@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 19 november 2018 9:54
Aan: Paul Van Gasse
CC: kenyabirdsnet@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [KENYABIRDSNET] IS THIS AFRICA'S GOLDEN ATLAS PENTAD?

Hi David and Paul,
Thanks so much for the input and all the data you dug up. There are
some pretty impressive figures in your delving.  It’s a problem
comparing figures when in different parts we are using different media
with regards to sample areas. In Kenya we use a Pentad of 9km x 9km
for our atlas, but in Tanzania they are using ¼ degree squares, which
amounts to over 3,000 sq kms per unit as opposed to our one of 81sq km
only, so it makes it very difficult to come up with comparative
figures. What we do know is that we have a Pentad of 9km sides that
has so far received 480 species. So if we look at the EBird Hotspots
we are in many cases comparing areas of many many thousands of sq kms.
In the South American Forests the speciation is undeniably vast, but
mainly resident species of varying abundance. There are trails cut
into the forest, and also boat trips often to other trails cut into
the forest where the species can be remarkably different as a result
of vegetation change. Again we are trying to compare apples and
oranges, as we do not know what the area size is that is being
reported on. However from live postings made on site from EBird
records, whilst it is probably not possible to do so on line, Cornell
must have the capabilities of setting parameters such as co-ordinates
for pentads and extrapolating a list of all species recorded within
it.  When we have looked at unusual locations for some species here in
East Africa, that have been posted on EBird we have often found that
they have occurred on days marked Travelling. So we cannot really
accept anything until we see the identical standards being used. I do
feel that there will be pentads that have topped 600 species however,
but possibly nowhere else apart from South America and Nairobi!, but
then again remote islands on migration paths such as Fair Isle off
Scotland might come up with surprises, I will have to see if such a
list exists. There are still so many possibilities for Finch Pentad
though. In the rainforests once they have recorded all the residents,
there are not that many migratory species and hardly anything
resembling vagrancy… but in Kenya we will continue marching on like an
Eveready Bunny because so many of our birds are migrants and
inveterate wanderers, but as with South American lowlands apart from
an itinerant local wandering such as mixed feeding assemblages, many
forest birds are not.

Best for now
Brian


On 11/18/18, 'Paul Van Gasse' paul.van.gasse@telenet.be
[kenyabirdsnet] <kenyabirdsnet-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Well David, quite interesting though this is, that list of 702 species for
> the two lodges along the Manu Road in Peru (Cock-of-the-Rock Lodge and Manu
> Paradise Lodge) is certainly a fallacy. Both lodges are well in the
> subtropics, with no real lowland around it and, as you must know, the higher
> you go the fewer species you will encounter. I have had a closer look at the
> listed species, and quite a few of them were recorded from that site and
> from the tropical Manu lowlands, and from nowhere in between, though there
> are many places there that are very well covered (including Amazonia and
> Pantiacolla lodges).
>
>
>
> As these lodges are mostly visited in combination with a trip to the Manu
> lowlands, following the Manu road and the Rio Madre de Dios, it is obvious
> that quite a few irresponsible people have listed species seen lower down in
> the lowlands, en route to the Manu lodges, under the name of the said
> lodges. When you go to the websites of the lodges, the Cock-of-the-Rock
> lodge gives a bird list of 222 species which, though perhaps a little low,
> will no doubt be more closely to the real figure.
>
>
>
> The Peruvian Amazonian lowlands have, of course, many places with a huge
> bird list of up to 600 species. The highest more or less credible figure I
> have seen is that of Amazonia Lodge (the former Hacienda Amazonia) on the
> upper Rio Madre de Dios, which combines lowland forest and aquatic habitats
> with foothill forest. On eBird 662 species are listed for this lodge, though
> here too some species from lower down may have been included. The lodge’s
> website itself gives a rather credible list of 630 species within an
> altitudinal range of 500 to 1050m.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Paul Van Gasse
>
> Kruibeke, Belgium
>
> paul.van.gasse@telenet.be
>
>
>
> Van: kenyabirdsnet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kenyabirdsnet@yahoogroups.com]
> Namens David Guarnieri dvguarnieri@me.com [kenyabirdsnet]
> Verzonden: zondag 18 november 2018 8:28
> Aan: Brian Finch
> CC: kenyabirdsnet; Sidney Shema Kamanzi
> Onderwerp: Re: [KENYABIRDSNET] IS THIS AFRICA'S GOLDEN ATLAS PENTAD? [1
> Attachment]
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Well I can tell you the "Guarnieri Pentad" in Rome, Italy cannot compete
> with the Finch Pentad!
>
>
>
> Fantastic idea Brian. I agree that this exercise can highlight the
> incredible diversity of species in and around NNP and go along way to alert
> the birding community of the incredible richness of avifauna in Kenya.
>
>
>
> I did a quick survey on eBird, looking at birding
> <https://ebird.org/region/world/regions?yr=all&m=>  hotspots  to get a
> general idea of the amount of species in the top 67 countries with more than
> 480 species. An eBird hotspot is defined as:
>
>
>
> "Hotspots are public birding locations created by eBird users. Using
> Hotspots, multiple birders can enter data into the same shared location,
> creating aggregated results available through "View and Explore Data”."
>
>
>
> Hotspots are not defined by measurement. A hotspot can be in an around a
> lodge, a small park or a national park.
>
>
>
> It was interesting to see that there are quiet a few hotspots (50) with more
> than 480 species. Peru has the most high species hotspots with 18. The
> hotspot with the most species contains two lodges in Peru with 702 recorded
> species. It would be interesting for birders in these high species areas to
> define a pentad and try to compete against the Finch Pentad.
>
>
>
> Please see the attached list of the 9 countries (Kenya has three and NNP is
> on the list!) with hotspots with more than 480 species.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
>