Hi James,
I really wish you’d stop apologising for your beliefs. If you think these Lebanese hunters are fools you have every right to say so. I happen to think they are beyond foolish and the words that I would use to describe these ‘people’ are not suitable for a polite forum such as this. It seems to me that the world is increasingly full of foolish people and the unfortunate rise of political correctness, where a good and honest man such as yourself cannot speak his mind on a subject that he is passionate about, saddens me greatly.
Dr Evans has his own opinion about bird hunting and he is perfectly entitled to it. Personally, I agree with very little that he has written but I am sure that he too will say that am entitled to my own opinion. For one, I am happy to be ‘confrontational’ and use terms such as ‘criminal’ where I see fit. Regardless of the national laws in which these hunters operate, the behaviour of these people is ethical criminal to you and me, and we have every right to say so.
The 'Conservation Ecologist' writes with
the tone
of someone who is paid well to write proposals, research a
lot, and deliver uninspiring
papers at the end of it, and good luck to him. I’m sure he’s
very happy with his
lot and I genuinely wish him every success - it sounds like a
great life. His opinion is a professional one and, in this age
of political correctness, I fully understand why he feels the
need
to pussyfoot around such gritty subject matter. For the rest
of us, who do not
use the word ‘stakeholder’ everyday, have an opinion based on
our passion rather than
our job, and our integrity still intact, we have the right to
speak out when
something abhors us.
Opposition to the excessive, destructive
and mostly mindless
hunting of birds in the Mediterranean has been high among
birders, naturalists and
conservationists for well over 30 years now, and the
professional conservation
ecologists of this world have had little success in tackling
it, in fact it
is considerably worse now than ever. Maybe it is time for a
different approach?
Either way, please carry on speaking your
mind James,
regardless of what the PC brigade tell you what to say. You
have my full support and I am sure that of most others on the
Kenyabirdsnet too.
With best wishes,
Adam
I apologize profusely (as i normally seem to do on this forum) for calling anyone a fool. I do not know this fellow and he could easily be a very clever person for all I know.I am a hunter and a fisherman myself and I am not squeamish at all about people killing birds or other animals if it is done so sustainably. Personally, i prefer species like grouse, and pheasant to the (orioles?) pictured. I only posted this because I thought it good to note that the Lebanese Hunting Club is proudly showing off what appears to me to be a very unsustainable practice - one that does not seem to bode well for the rest of us who like birdlife on this continent.
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Steven W. Evans <stevenwe@vodamail.co.za> wrote:
Hi All,
I am not apposed to hunting so long as it is undertaken ethically and in the context of sustainable utilization. I am however not a hunter myself, unless you equate my lists of birds seen in Africa, list of all species I have ringed and list of species photographed as trophies of another kind of "hunting". Keep in mind that hunting is as old as humanity, and probably as old as life has existed on Earth.
In the world there are clearly opinions ranging from anti-hunting to the other extreme of hunting with no limits, and everything in between. With the world divided into different countries with different laws it is doubtful that consensus is possible on a solution regarding hunting (or other issues) that will satisfy everyone completely. As examples: A complete global ban on hunting will not be accepted by the hunters. At the other extreme, hunting without limits (no legislation, permits, seasons etc.) will not be accepted by the conservationists (and by many hunters). The solution is somewhere between these two extremes.
Not all countries have the same laws, for example Kenyan law does not allow hunting were as South African law does. Although I do not know Lebanese law it appears to me that the Lebanese Hunting Club and similar clubs in for example Italy are legal within their respective countries. Labeling people as criminals (or fools or any other derogatory epithet) and their activities as criminal, when this is untrue in the context of their countries' legislation, is confrontational and I expect these people and clubs will respond in a confrontational manner and no benefit will come of such an approach for any of the people involved or for the birds we want conserved.
Keep in mind that these hunters are people, with families, that are not that different from us, they just happen to engage in an activity that causes concern for us about the future existence of the birds they hunt. A solution to this situation will not be gained by confrontation. A solution to this issue of ensuring the future existence (conservation of these birds) will be achieved by a compromise that nether party (anti-hunter or hunters without limits) will be completely satisfied with. However the aim should remain the conservation of these birds by all stakeholders, not who is or is not completely satisfied with the compromises made to achieve this i.e. us conservationists may need to accept some amount of hunting (even although some of us disapprove), and the hunters will need to respect some no hunting areas, hunting seasons, quotas etc.
The aim should remain the conservation of these birds by all stakeholders.
Kind regards
Steven
Dr Steven W. Evans
Ornithologist and Conservation Ecologist
On 2013/11/07 08:00 AM, Mohamed Ismail wrote:
Hi all,
We should re-post this on Facebook and express our indignation and horror at these criminals and their government which allows these criminal activities. I am posting this on my Facebook page right now.
Mo Ismail.
------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 03:04:22 AM EAT
From: James Christian <jc@james-christian.com>
To: "kenyabirdsnet@yahoogroups.com" <kenyabirdsnet@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [KENYABIRDSNET] The Lebanese Hunting Club
Here are some more fools killing our migrants and actually bragging about it quite loudly. On facebook they have over 11000 'likes'.
--
James Christian
Karisia Walking Safaris
http://www.karisia.com